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August 08, 2007


Shawn Fago

It seems stupid that the deal between Newport and the County would limit the number of passengers instead of the number of flights. Noise is the real issue here which is directly related to the number of flights and the decibel level of engine noise.

It seems to me that the airport could be run more efficiently and Newport would have more assurances if the deal was re-negotiated to limit the number of flights instead of the number of passengers.

Just a thought.


Len Kranser

Shawn, These are not stupid people looking out for Newport Beach. The agreement caps the number of passengers, the number of noisy flights, the number of boarding gates, the number of planes that can remain overnight at the airport for departures the next morning, the maximum noise levels, the hours of operation . . . Throw up enough roadblocks and you eventually have a solid wall of restrictions.

You might ask why the county agreed to all of this. It was 2002 and Supervisors Smith, Silva and Coad still were pushing for an airport at El Toro.

What a Load

You'd be the one to know about roadblocks, Len.


Your comment above is the best thing you've written thus far here! thank god the supervisors in 02 put all that in there otherwise you'd be trying to put more flights in my backyard instead of your own.


Len, what mechanisms are in place to make sure that airport management keeps within the cap? Who monitors that compliance? What penalties would kick in if they exceeded the cap? I don't have any faith in whatever system is in place - there's too much economic pressure going the other way. I figure all us nearby residents (including me in West Santa Ana Heights) would get is a half-hearted apology.

Len Kranser

I am confident that airport management intends to keep within the caps. If they err, it is more likely on the conservative side - reducing the number of seats allocated to the airlines to too low a level. For as long as I've seen data, they have kept a cushion of at least a half million passengers under the limit.

This year is unusually close.

Certainly the city of Newport Beach also watchs to see how the traffic is running and probably talk to the airport manager.

The agreement was approved by a court and I imagine that any penalty for breaking the limit would be set by the court. It does not appear to be spelled out in the agreement with a schedule of fines.

BTW. Thanks for your reasonable question. Some commentors seem more interested in personal attacks than in discussing the facts of the situation.

Shawn Fago

I never said anyone was stupid, I was suggesting that the policy seems stupid.

Not knowing a whole lot about the caps allow me to ask this...

Why restrict the number of passengers when the number of flights is the core issue? Or, to put it another way... Why does the number of passengers matter after you limit the number of flights?



maybe you are subjected to personal attacks because you are a duplicitous hypocrite. You whined incessantly that El Toro would be a very baaaaaad place to have an airport and OC needed more air capacity. Now you are on here rooting for John Wayne to increase capacity. Why don't you FIRST increase capacity in your own backyard before you ask likewise of others.


Note to other commentators - Len thinks if you disagree with his point of view on this issue you are below him. He is much too important to be bothered with other peoples points of view or lives.

Len Kranser

Shawn, You ask "Why limit the number of passengers when the number of flights is the key issue?" I agree with your logic. That is how they do it at Long Beach Airport where the number of large aircraft flights are limited to 41 per day and the commuter planes to 25. They also have a noise budget and periodically review the situation and allow for an increase in the numbers if the planes get quieter.

As I indicated above, JWA has limits on the number of daily departures of noisy (class A) aircraft and several other limitations - including the one on passengers. They are covering all the bases.

LAX recently instituted a limit on the number of passenger gates in order to control the number of passengers so as to control the number of flights and the amount of noise.

Burbank limits the size of its terminal and parking for similar reasons. There my be legal reasons why some restrictions are selected over others. At JWA they are using them all.

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