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June 27, 2007


Tim Steed

Or if you want to support the environment and the people who are against this horrible idea go to:



Tim, how in the world is getting cars off the road sooner, so as not to pollute as much while sitting on a clogged freeway, a bad thing for the environment?

Should we tear up the existing 241 tollroad and give it back to the grasshoppers?

BTW, did you walk to work today????


Show me the list where I can support the 241 extension to the 5 but it either a) does not go through San Onofre Park or b)the proposed route stays as is but there is additional parkland provided by the Department of Navy and the lease is converted into a conveyance to the State. I'll sign that puppy.

Paul Lucas

"Tim, how in the world is getting cars off the road sooner, so as not to pollute as much while sitting on a clogged freeway, a bad thing for the environment?"

Spock, what freeway are you talking about exactly? I worked at a site in San Marcos for over a year and I also worked on Camp Pendleton for a year. I left my office in Irvine every time I went to those sites. Not once did I ever hit traffic in the area concerned for this toll road extension. So I am a bit vexed when supporters of this road tout the relief of traffic as the sole reason to support this road.

I do know that the Commandant of the Marine Corps as well as the CO of Camp Pendleton do not support this toll road extension because the proposed route passes within striking distance of Marine Barracks and that places our Patriotic men and women serving our beloved Marine Corps in harms way from terrorist attacks.

Do you support terrorists just so you can "relieve" traffic on the 5 freeway? (Which in my experience does not exist).

OC Spock why do you hate our troops? Why do you support terrorists?

There was a traffic study that showed that is was even more feasible to widen the 5 freeway, would produce the desired effect in traffic relief, (questionable on existence of traffic), and would produce 2% more jobs than the current alignment going through a Sate Park, and ruining not only cultural, historical, and natural resources permanently.

Spock et al, why do you hate nature? Why do you hate our troops, why do you support terrorists destroying our natural and cultural resources to be able to get a shot at killing our troops? Do you hate America?

Why do you hate America?

* (Note, tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Tim Steed


Live long and prosper! First, building new roads only builds new demand. That is a fact. Second, I never advocated to give it back to the grasshoppers (way to go on the slippery slope argument! I thought spock was smarter than that?)

And, I drove to work in my 4cylinder car with a co-worker I carpool with!

For more info, refer to Bladerunner...



You drove to work, enough said. Carpooling does not equate to moral superiority. But thanks for trying.

I am so very pleased that no part of Paul's life in OC has had any interaction with traffic. He is totally in tune with the averge OC Joe (or Spock). You should run for office!


ps, I was just having fun with the grasshoppers :-)

Tim Steed


You were the one who challenged my enviro. street cred, so don't be so offended when I answer you.

As for what Paul said, have you ever been south of Irvine? The toll road extension would do nothing to alleviate traffic from Anaheim to Lake Forest (Where the traffic is). After you get passed Mission Viejo to San Clemente it can be smooth sailing.

And what about building more roads increasing demand (thereby increasing pollution, not reducing it)?

Paul Lucas

I have plenty of interactin with traffic in OC and even on the 5 freeway. but my experience with traffic on the 5 freeway is conatined mostly in North OC begining from the El Toro Y.

I have not once ever slowed down to more than 40 miles an hour south of the Y when going to my work sites in San Marcos and or Pendleton.

My sarcasm in the above comment is referring to the chicken little attitude towards the proponents of extending the Toll Road. In my experience, and professional opinion, it is unecessary, and horribly mis-aligned.

I suggest the widening of the 5 freeway above the Y especially in the Santa Ana area from the 55 going north, and if it makes you happy to widen it at San Clemente.

All the best,


(Tongue not so firmly p,aced in cheek but still there) :o)


And what about building more roads increasing demand (thereby increasing pollution, not reducing it)?

Since Tim is a YOUNG Democrat, he probably doesn't remember that Gov. Jerry Brown tried that "if we don't build roads, people will stop coming here" approach in the 1970s.

Guess what? It didn't work. It just crammed more cars onto the same freeways and roads. We're still paying the price for that stupidity.

Tim Steed

Jubal finally went after me! I have made it!

Andy Favor

I am genetically an environmentalist, but there is a public safety aspect that needs to be factored into the toll road expansion discussion. Congestion causes deadly accidents and therefore we do need to ensure adequate road construction. The Reason Foundation has a new report addressing road performance.

From the summary:
Nearly 52 percent of U.S. urban Interstates are now congested and traffic fatality rates rose slightly, but road surface conditions and bridge conditions improved according to the Reason Foundation’s latest annual highway performance report released today. "Gridlock isn't going away," said David T. Hartgen, Ph.D., the study's lead author. "States are going to have to prioritize and direct their transportation money to projects specifically designed to reduce congestion if we are going to reverse this troubling trend."


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