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September 25, 2006



There are a couple of other cities in OC that have these kind of social programs. Tustin, Huntington Beach, Newport and Irvine are the worst! Why are conservative elected officials voting for these kinds of liberal programs?

There are two Conservative electeds in Irvine (Christina Shea and Steven Choi), but they're in the minority. The majority, Beth Krom, Suhkee Kang, and Larry Agran are liberal Dems. Don't be misled by the affordable housing tag. For the most part, when Irvine's liberal majority says "affordable housing", they're talking about government housing projects with subsidized rents, not lower-priced ownership units.

G Powers

It is my understanding that the entire initiative is a brainchild of a certain council member who is currently running for reelection to the city council.

Here is how it pans out…

They want $22.90 per square foot for any new residential homes that are not rental housing (on new rental units it is the bargain basement price of only $15.90 per square foot). It is *only* $57K for a standard 2500 sf house.

Of course, there is a sliding scale on the pain. If you build 5 units you only have to pay $13.74 p/sf (60%) and once you hit 10 units you are fully over the barrel.

I smell payback. Also, I hear rumblings that a new city motto may be needed. Instead of “Harboring the good life” … maybe it should be “Welcome to Santa Monica South”


Everyone agrees that there is a shortage of housing in Orange County.


There's plenty of housing in Orange County -- how else did we become the second most populous country in the most populous state in the nation? Moreover, plenty of housing is for sale. In fact, there is over 2.5 times more housing available than was avaible a mere year ago. If you can't afford any of these houses it's because someone else has more money than you and is willing outbid you. It's that simple.

Surely someone who posts as "Laissez Faire" can figure this out.

Shawn Fago

Here is an idea... If you can’t afford to live in Dana Point, then don’t live there. These types of social programs normally come along with income restrictions, meaning you only qualify if you make under a certain dollar amount per year. These programs actually encourage people to be less productive and successful out of fear of being kicked out of their home (socialism in its purest form). These programs only bring stagnation to a city. Rent control has its place to a point (teachers being able to live relatively close to their job comes to mind). But we often go way too far. “Affordable Housing” should not be imposed on neighborhoods where the program simply does not make sense or fit in with the surrounding area. Commuting to your job a few extra miles is simply a fact of life. The reality is that not everyone can afford to live where they want and need to adjust accordingly. Who knows, maybe those who would normally want to live in Dana Point but cannot afford to do so will work towards that goal instead of being handed another social program at the expense of their future neighbors.


"Rent control has its place to a point (teachers being able to live relatively close to their job comes to mind)"

Shawn, please explain what you mean. Why should teachers get preferential treatment with subsidized housing near their jobs. That doesn't sound very conservative to me.


Red P Said Why should teachers get preferential treatment with subsidized housing near their jobs. That doesn't sound very conservative to me.

Or Liberal.

"Feudal" fits, however.

Dana Point Conservative

So where do Jim Lacy and Diane Harkey stand on this? I am hoping that they will both vote against this horribly socialist Idea! There would be no denying that anyone who votes for this social program is a "hollywood" type limosuine liberal. No conservative in his or her right mind could ever consider such a terrible government mandated social program.

Lucy Dunn

“Inclusionary programs are not a substitute for designating sufficient sites with appropriate zoning, densities and development standards...” for housing. That's the law. Some cities think inclusionary programs are escape clauses. They're not.

Shawn Fago

First let me point out that I did not say subsidized housing. Rent control is different although still reprehensible. Subsidized means that the tax payers pick up a piece of the bill. Rent controlled means that the rent of a tenant cannot be raised beyond certain guidelines set forth by the city. Now, let me be very clear; I HATE both ideas. But, at times it can be appropriate to zone a very limited area as rent controlled. That being said, rent control should not be imposed on existing building owners. New development located in a zoned area where the developer is of the understanding that rent control will be imposed and only under very limited circumstances and only in locations that agree with the surrounding neighborhoods can at times be appropriate in very limited circumstances. Yes, I do believe that teachers and other similar professionals that serve the community should be able to live relatively close to their job. Does that mean we should create a system where any body should be able to live wherever they want??? No. But if you are going to attract certain low paid professionals who are vital to the community then you should provide certain provisions that make your city more palatable than others. Again, it is not appropriate everywhere, but for some communities it can make some sense, just leave the tax payer out of it.

DP Joe

Rent control aside, which is a totally different topic...

Inclusionary Housing is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. All it does is raise the cost of normal housing so that we can feel good about our selves by robbing not just Peter but Mary too...to pay Paul. I want to know who at Dana Point City hall is playing Robin Hood. This is bad for my community and I am very grateful the Laissez Faire brought this up. I caution any council member that seeks to be reelected from voting for this terrible proposal. I hope all of this was not brought up because of those trailer park people that keep showing up at council chambers looking for a hand out. It is like feeding the neighbors cat. If you keep putting food out it will keep coming over to eat. Stop feeding it!!! It will eventually go away! Most of those people don't even live in Dana Point anymore. Our council needs to start representing those of us that live in the City. Or at least those of us who can actually vote for them.


There is no way that Jim Lacy or Diane Harkey would ever vote for this socialist garbage! This has to be the work of that Liberal Laura Anderson. That council is usually pretty conservative. How the heck could any conservative ever approve something like this.

G Powers

I'll put a hundi on the table for dinner at any resturant in Dana Point that Lacy will NOT vote against it.

Trust me... the only way he will vote against it will be that these posts will keep him from doing it. (He has committed himself to the low income housing folks in town and they are carrying his water for him)

We had a clear eminent domain issue in town and Lacy voted against the land owner every time. And, further, he pushed the city to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax money (in attorney's fees) trying to take almost 50%* of this guys land value away...

And the eventual outcome... The City LOST the lawsuit.

It was the Diedrich coffee drive through issue and it cost me my planning commission seat - because I was the ONLY ONE out of 10 appointeds or electeds (including Ms. Harkey) who said it was wrong.

(*the owner's lease would have dropped almost in half without the drive through *which had been there 19 years and had been through two user changes)

This is the sticky ugly stuff that most people don't want the public to see.

Some talk a good talk.

And, some of us actually walk the talk when we get the opportunity.

No way Jim votes for this. I'll be you that Hundi. Jim is a conservative if I have ever met one.

Jim Lacy

Thanks to Bryan Starr at Building Industry Association for tipping me to this discussion, I actually missed this earlier today on my OC Blog review!

I am against the inclusionary element and met with BIA on Thursday to discuss my opposition and my substitute motion, which I have just drafted and if anyone is interested in seeing it in advance, email me at jamesvlacy@aol.com and I'll send you the zip file with the formal motion, etc. My motion has been endorsed by the BIA.

Dana Point needs to certify its housing element with the state; but it doesn't have to tax developers to death to do it, especially small developers of 5 - 10 units. What our city needs to do is make some sort of financial commitment to affordable housing to make up for a very poor record in the past. My substitute motion would take a piece of undeveloped public dirt in the city and turn it back to the private sector for development by selling it to the highest bidder. The proceeds of the sale would then be deployed in several ways: in part to address afforable housing by funding an expert nonprofit organization, like the Mary Erickson Foundation of San Clemente, and task them to fix our problem (and keep the city out of the public housing business). Other proceeds will go for long over-due renovations to our Library, and for capital improvements in our existing parks. In this manner, three good things can be accomplished: 1) afforable can be funded without having to raise any taxes or affect our budget; 2) the private sector will have a new piece of property to develop (exactly what we need to really address the problem -- more supply of land); and 3) there will be no need to nail developers with this onerous program -- especially small developers, who would be hurt the most. If my substitute passes, there won't be a need fo an inclusionary program in Dana Point, and we'll have that much more space for housing, to boot.

"And, some of us actually walk the talk when we get the opportunity."

Well, for a guy who claimed in his last losing campaign for city council (the one he finished dead last in) that he "served in Desert Storm" when the facts show he was just a reserve guard on a Coast Guard Cutter in Long Beach Harbor for three weeks during the war, G. Powers really has a lot of gall. The supposed inside scoop on his being fired from the Planning Commission is that it had something to do with his Planning Commissioner salary being garnished. G. Powers is good at being self-righteous but his words sound mostly like the "pot calling the kettle black."

G Powers

May I suggest that you get a better fact checker.

I'll put my US Coast Guard duty up against anyone.

Welcome to Dana Point Politics.

G Powers

Hey 5:45.

The only reason Lacy will not vote for it is because he has now felt the pressure outside of Dana Point.

And, if he votes against it. It will be worth the hundi. Send me an email and we can hash out the details.


"This pushes the cost of market rate housing up. The end result...less affordability."

And then the middle class emigrates to Nevada, leaving an OC of the upper classes footing the tax burden, in return for isolation from the proles, and the proles themselves. Let the market take its course; real estate is getting more affordable by the minute.

Bootstrap Bully

"But, at times it can be appropriate to zone a very limited area as rent controlled." Shawn Fago


Dear Mr. Corless:

What are the procedures for recalling the CRP’s Associate Rep? Is there a motion to vacate the seat of Tom Hayden Fago?

Shawn Fago

You caught me bootstrap. I am a Marxist. I just needed you to help me admit it. Who are you anyway?

Bootstrap Bully

I wouldn’t flatter you by calling you a Marxist. Most Marxists I know read books and have developed a consistent guiding philosophy that lets them establish an opinion on a variety of issues. Your sophomoric defense of limited rent control for “teachers” shows immense political immaturity. No Shawn, you’re not a Marxist, you’re worse; an ignorant populist. Using your 6th grade logic we should also have rent control for police officers, maybe firefighters, why should city employees have to commute?

Please resign your position as the CRP Associate Rep, unplug your keyboard and pick up some basic conservative primer books.

Who am I? I am the keeper of the faith. I am charged with smiting conservative frauds.

FYI "rent control" is a form of taxation. One of the worst kinds.

Shawn Fago

Bootstrap (aka Mr. Keeper of Faith),
I never said rent control for teachers... I merely cited that teachers would be the type of public servants who would benefit from such a program. Let me reiterate yet again that I despise these types of government regulations. I believe that rent control and other government regulations like it which interrupt the free market have the potential to do great harm to an economy. Additionally, these policies discriminate against individuals who live in the surrounding areas and are not afforded the same benefits, injustice is imposed on landlords, stagnation sets in and all of a sudden we are living in France. My point was simply this; at times it makes sense for a community to implement certain measures that will attract qualified public servants. What those measures are need to be determined by each community independently when the need arises.

In short, my original comment was simply meant to illustrate that at times a city needs to make its self more competitive. I for one do not believe that subsidized housing, rent control, or government housing is an appropriate means to justify that end. Please re-read my opening sentence… “If you can’t afford to live in Dana Point, then don’t live there.”

I have an idea for you Bootstrap… If you are that concerned with me holding my CRP position then why not run against me (If I decide to run for re-election)? Let the Associate Membership decide for themselves who they want as their representative to the Executive Committee.

To the 7:19 poster, if you are making the point that rent control suppresses city revenue, encouraging tax increases in other sectors of the economy then I concede your point.

Craig Alexander

Dear Jim Lacy,

As a resident of Dana Point your amendment sounds like an interesting alternative to the $22+ (residential for sale housing) and $14+ (rental housing) in lieu fees contained in the current staff report (available on line at Dana Point's web site (www.danapoint.org) under the City's agenda for tonight). Please send me a copy (preferably before 5:00 today) at cpalexander@cox.net or better post it here at OC Blog or on your web site.

Thank you!

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