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June 09, 2006

Comments

redperegrine

Ah, nothing like a good scorched earth policy to win friends and influence people. The sheriff seems to be racking up some bad karma - and I have the sneaking suspicion that he's going to start needing all the good kind that he can get.

John Thomas

Glad to see Norby and Correa on top of this one. The greater the appearance of vindictiveness the lesser chance he will have of moving up the ladder.

Which is a good thing.

Spanky


Clearly, the results of the election were not enough to satisfy Mike Carona.

rebecca

Wow! So I guess we now know it WASN'T any election-finance skullduggery, like Jubal had been positing. Just that the First Amendment "didn't apply."
Damn, damn, and DAMN!

John Thomas

Is it just me, or does anyone think it just a bit odd that folks who wrap themselves in the flag of our freedoms and show great animosity towards the encroachment of those freedoms have no problem with someone being investigated and maybe even harassed over a basic freedom that somehow doesn't apply.

I'm not surprised.

Missy

John Thomas:

IOKIYAR

Sentinel

It is amazing how the regulars on this blog so strongly and blindly back Little Mike just to preserve the republican political machine. Carona's no leader; never has been, never will be. He was placed in leadership roles at the courts by judges, and in the sheriff's department by republican money. He has never served the people of this county, because he only knows how to serves himself.

Kudos for the Board of Supervisors for calling the little sheriff on the carpet. He begged and pleaded for county money to pay for his private attorney so he could make his opponent look bad. Santa Ana college professor George Wright may have a take on that scenario. Get ready County of Orange, Mike Carona is going to cost you more than just a tainted reputation in the near future.

Bill Hunt and his minions have run amok at OCSD. They bullied their coworkers. Berated anyone who declined to support them and suggested we were dishonorable if we failed to fall in line behind them.

The Sheriff has sat quietly by until the election was over and refused to climb into the gutter with the low-lifes.

You whiners were all ready to chop the heads off of everyone who you considered loyal to the sheriff (even those who were neutral). You threatened to "clean house" and obviously planned to re-assign, demote, fire allies of the Sheriff if and when Bill Hunt became Sheriff.

Well your plan was foiled and you are suffering the same punishment you were willing to dole out.

Its too bad it had to happen, but it is reality. quit crying and deal with it.

whoa pardner.  There's an old sheriff in town

How interesting the anon @ 1:35p poster justifies Carona's actions based upon expected behavior from the Hunt camp.

I hope you're not in law enforcement. Innocent till proven guilty and all that.

I don't justify Carona, I simply point out that the biggest whiners are cut from the same cloth.

I feel no pity for them. They thought they were acting with impunity and now they realize they were not.

Those of us who stayed out of the fray and just did our jobs had to endure the constant denigration of our department and negative/borderline hostile work environment they perpetrated upon us.

Forgive me if I take a little satisfaction in seeing them receive their due.

Sentinel

"No man is worth his salt who is not ready at all times to risk his body, to risk his well-being, to risk his life in a great cause."
-Teddy Roosevelt

Carona is no great cause, and yes you are forgiven for coming out of your hole and suddenly becoming indignant. Grow a pair and take a stand when it matters. Put yourself on the line at some point in your life and don't mistake blind personal loyalty to Carona as being virtuous. Integrity matters and Carona has none.

Hunt 4 Sheriff

Dear Bullied Coworker:

You don't kow a thing of what you are stating. Yes, Bill Hunt would have made administrative changes based on what he wanted to accomplish to help take the OCSD from good to great. I agree that those changes are the Sheriff's right. But I have been involved with Bill's campaign early on and I have known Bill many years. Bill has never planned nor strategized to ruin careers and vindictively demote people. Bill would never stoop to the cutter level that Carona's loyal managers and legal advisors have by trying to injure and destroy good cops. Bill Hunt was excited to truly challenge the men and women of the OCSD on to greatness, not political posturing and grandstanding on murdered children like that of Carona.

To openly challenge the Sheriff, maliciously and without reason, would probably be good reason to fire an employee. But to seek out ways to indimidate and "pay back" employees who engage in the political process is facist or communist type tactics. Carona provided all the ammunition that Hunt simply spoke of in his campaign. Carona is the one, by his own actions, who has harmed the OCSD and injured the ability of the Department to serve the public. Time will tell, but Carona's satisfaction with himself should be short lived.

JozefColomy

That doesn't seem too "Christian-like", now does it Mr. Carona?

Nikgus

It's truly amazing to read something comparing the actions of Hunt to the gutter. Mike Carona didn't need to jump in the gutter, he was already there, way below it in the sewer. First and foremost, Mike Carona is a bailiff and that's all he knows.His job duties were to pick up the judges dry cleaning and to walk his dog. His entire staff has been investigated and/or indicted for crimes. His own Captain pleaded guilty to illegally obtaining campiagn funds. Next time you see a Police Officer in any city in Orange county, ask them what they think of that department. I have asked six from Santa Ana, Orange,Huntington Beach,Fountain Valley, and Newport Beach. They all chuckle and in general terms, they say, "we never call those guys, their bozos"
Carona has taken the Sheriff's department and made them the laughing stock of Law Enforcement in and around Southern California.
Here is Mike Carona's reality:
With all the problems his administration has had over the past years, he was still re-elected. If he could survive his administration over the past years, throwing Hunt and others out, as retalitory as it is, is NO BIG DEAL. Carona does what he wants, and the citizens of the County voted him in.
One post stated Carona kept out of the fray until the vote was over. Carona didn't talk because he had nothing to say. He had nothing but negativity associated with his department and most of that was caused by HIM and only HIM. Handpicking the knuckleheads he did,giving out reserve id cards to vegas strip club owners, and borderline criminals caused him his problems. He's now associated with the Swedish Mafia guy who crashed his car in Malibu. He's facing over twenty years in Prison. If you leave Carona alone, he will get himself in trouble.

Well, Well, Well

Well, of course EVERYONE knows better than the Sheriff. Yup.

Well, in some Sheriff's Departments around the country the practice is for currently employed personnel to submit a resignation to the incoming Sheriff. Some keep their jobs - some do not. No recourse. No protection.

Well, in Orange County the employees have the benefits of union label contracts and state laws that PROTECT them from such random acts of dis-employment.

So, the Sheriff follows the law and the employees have the benefits of the law. This all means that they have the benefit of an administrative process that affords them due process rights and employment protections. It is neither random nor arbitrary. It is also subject to lots of third party review and court actions.

In this case, NOBODY outside the parties involved (Employer and employee) has full and complete knowledge of anything - expecially the facts.

Everything is speculation. Only time will tell whether the due process rights of the employees were protected and whether the personnel action was proper.

Oh, what if Lt. Hunt had been in the private sector and was a middle manager challenging the CEO for his job? Any speculation on whether or not Hunt would have been fired on Wednesday after the challenge failed?

Not a perfect analogy - but the point is that Hunt and the others enjoy the protections of a civil service job.

Hunt and the others are not the first OCSD employees to face administrative leave or the failure to pass probation in a new rank/assignment.

So, give it a rest. But then again, facts did not seem to stop the Huntistas during the past two years and why should anyone think the will of the electorate would silence them now.

Move on.

Poor Line Supervison

Hey Nikgus, ever think the reason other agencies do not want to play well with us, it is because of poor supervision, (Sgt's). The majority of the field Sgts. and Investigative I work with in South OC. are staunch supporters They should be encouraging those deputies to work with other agencies in a spirit of cooperation. Carona hs promoted many LTs and Sgts. durinng thses past 8 years, because he trusted they will supervise, and not lead a revolt against him. There is has been NO supervision going on, these supervisors have been busy being buddies with their subordinates to get them in "car" that eventually went over the cliff.

Nikgus

Hey poor line supervision, Carona may of promoted many Lt's and Sgt's but the real fact lies behind closed doors. When you have a leader who cares about his next spot in the poltical arena, the department and issues dealing with it fall by the side. I talked to one of your deputies who told me Carona has promoted many bailiffs or marshalls through the rank adding to the misfit handling of his administration. When you lack expeirence, you tumble downwards. If superivsors had stood up, they may of been dealt a severe blow by Carona's misfit organazation.
Another reality is this:
Carona does not have the expeirence or ability to be a REAL cop and/or lead that organazation. It's truly sad becasue the PUBLIC suffers more than anyone else.

Poor Line Supervison

Nikgus, you are spinning the facts, yes Carona has promoted from the formal Marshal's office, however the COMPLETE facts are, his command staff, are all veteran Sheriff's deputies that have worked Jails, Patrol, Investigations, not one worked for the Marshall. Then lets look at his Captains-Patrol Both Veteran Sheriff's Deputies,-PSD Veteran Sheriff's Deputy-Training-Veteran Sheriff's Deputy, (and Captain that was promoted by Gates)-Of the three Custody divisions, IRC Veteran Sheriff, Theo Lacy Veteran Sheriff-Musick OHHH YOU BUSTED-he's a FM, but wait all the LT's at the Farm, Veteran Sheriff's Deputy-All the Contract Cities Lt. -Veteran Sheriff's Deputies and so far ONE former Marshall was out in patrol however he was quickly sent packing, all the Sgt.s down here, South-Veteran Sheriff's and there hasn't been any supverison since August 2004, when this started brewing.

So you are ill informed.

Karen

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RETRIBUTIONS

Nikgus

Well then that's miserable because according to my source who is a Sergeant there, your supervision run the department like a bunch of Frank Mary. They have been conformed sorta speak. Regardless, your department is run by a Marshall who knows nothing about being a cop. Your patrol/jail Captains could not prevent him from becoming Sheriff.
The only person who could of transformed your department would of been Ralph Martin. He has the experience and proven leadership ability working in a place as big and political as Los Angeles. I do not mean this in an offensive way, but patrolling Mission Viejo, Laguna Niguel, San Clemente and so on is not a big experience maker. Hunt,though would of been better then Carona, lacked any real ability to run your department.
It has come to my attention that approximately 80 or so of your deputies have come up or are elgible for patrol and only 8 put in for it. According to my source, the deputies have become stagnant in your department and that's a reflection of your leaders.
In Los Angeles, you have to go to patrol and if you fail ADIOS....
Either way, your department my friend will faulter and only become much worse. Don't be suprised if you see a mass exodus of deputies and leadership there.
Carona knows his time has runout, he will use the next years to try and jocky himself for another poltical seat. He will not get re-elected. Additionally, your county will be paying a few million to Hunt,and the others for Carona's actions.

Poor leadership

I agree with the and like the idea you don't pass patrol training ADIOS, however that has been a problem since B. Gates. Now going out on the limb your buddy the SGT. I suspect is one of those supervisors I am speaking of who has not been doing his job because it has interferred with his ability to gain support for Hunt from those that he supervises.

Nikgus

Well I will tell you this, my source attempted to do his job sometime ago and ran into problems with Carona. Infact, he was pushing for Hadl's son to get arrested for the marijuana incident. That caused him some rift with both sides. That's another thing the media and people mention, Hadl's dad as a Assistant Sheriff. The guy was never a cop and was appointed because he donated a bunch of money to Carona's cause.
Another one of Carona's bright idea's.
Anyhow, it would be interesting to see, if San Clemente and some other surrounding cities took there contract away from the Sheriff's department because of Carona. I would bring my years of experience to be a lieutenant or Captain for that citites police department. With Carona at the helm, you may end up losing cities contracted with your department. Personally, that was one of Ralph Martin's objectives, to get more cities to contract with the Sheriff's department. Places like Yorba linda, placentia etc. Really too bad for you guys.
Carona and Arnold go hand and hand, they both know nothing and got elected.

Counting the Days

I have been a member of the Orange County Sheriff's Dept. for over 20 years. I can only think of one sgt. and one lt. that did not pass probation in that time. Now two have been demoted two days after the election and both of them were Hunt supporters, that is more that a coincidence.

I didn't publicly support any of the canidates because I saw this coming. Carona thinks he is King and if anyone doesn't go with his progam they are labeled untrustworthy.

The public of Orange County has spoken and you can tell from the voter turn out that the public doesn't really care who the Sheriff is.

Working for the Sheriff's Dept. is like living in Nazi Germany. You have to be careful what you say and who you say it to. For all of you that are going to say, "Why don't you go somewhere else and work?" If I was younger I would go to Santa Ana PD in a heartbeat, but because of my age and the injuries I have had I couldn't pass the medical.

I have worked almost twenty years on the streets of Orange County, on weekends, holidays and midnights protecting the citizens and their property. I have enjoyed every minute of it and I would trade it for anything, but now I am counting the days to retirement.

Karen A Finn

Dear Conting the Days,
Police officers Wife here I wish you could come to us. I feel for you trust me. I hate what is going on.
Good Luck to you and please stay safe ok?
Karen
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RETRIBUTIONS

Alex Brant-Zawadzki

I love Billy Joel.
"Captain Jack will get you high tonight,
And take you to that special island
Oh now Captain Jack will get you high tonight;
Just a little push, and you'll be smilin."

I really don't see how Carona's story can every be told in any fashion other than a glam-rock opera.

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