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July 29, 2005

Comments

The only person giving early(unauthorized)endorsements is Wayne Quint. You yourself Sergeant, are a pac member. You do not want early endorsements given. You think Brian Heaney and Bob Wren are wrong for coming out on a side of an issue. Speak to the self professed "Q" about this quote, Wayne Quint MARCH 2002 OC Metro, "...we support him wholeheartedly now...I hope he runs for a third term four years from now." Wayne Quint, self professed Carona lover and seeker of Lieutenant bars. What about Bob McLeod, who has no bussiness speaking for AOCDS members, DECEMBER 2004 OC REGISTER"...I can say this. The deputies have a different view of things...and that is that Mike Carona has been the best sheriff we've had, and every year with him has been a good one. Next year will be no different." TALK ABOUT EARLY ENDORSEMENTS. Sergeant, I respect you, almost wholeheartedly, but you have to get the whole story before you blog. Why is anyone afraid to let the candidates sit before the membership? This is not about Bill Hunt yet. This is an open forum, one that Carona or the LA guy could win. Those of us supporting Bill Hunt are anxious to see him talk to the troops. I applaud early endorsements, it says you are willing to lead and you have courage in your convictions. I NEVER want to ride the tail end of anything. The back seat is for FOLLOWERS. Be a leader, you already have the stripes!

Sergeant

Thanks for the nice thoughts and I just want to help refocus the decision faced by AOCDS members, at this time - which is about the timing of an endorsement, not about the candidate to endorse. This is immediately about the "when" and not the "who", as you said in your comments. Important - yes. Urgent - ???. Stay safe and keep up the good work!

You made several comments on the issue of pac members giving money to campaigns. You did not address Wayne's or Bob's comments at all. Why skip over the facts? Is their comments not about the "when" as you say it? Apparently the "when" is only important when it could hurt your position. "refocus" No, I am focused on the heart of the issue. Wayne Quint and Carona do not want the early endorsement because they both know Carona will fall on his face when put before his deputies asking the questions. He will trip on the hard issues, the ones which matter to us. If I was running for sheriff I would be banging down the door of AOCDS for the chance to speak to the troops. Why shy away unless you are afraid of the outcome? If I knew deputies wanted to ask questions so badly, I would set up the meeting, screw AOCDS? I would speak to whoever shows up. Oh, I know not good politics, huh searge. YOU ARE FALLING INTO THE SAME PIT EVERY POLITICIAN FALLS INTO, SELLING YOURSELF OUT. THIS TIN STAR BLOG IS A FRONT. SOME WOULD QUESTION YOUR MOTIVES FOR DOING IT. THERE IS NO CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATION HERE. YOU WON'T ADDRESS THE POINTS WRITTEN.

I am I blind

Help, I can't see.

I I just read the Tin Star and can not see where the Sgt. made the statements you allege, what I saw was a letter posted by a person ( it appears the Sgt, deleted the names of several letter writes on this issue) who makes the claims you attributed to him.

Secondly...Carona, Hunt, Martin, and Alazar are competing for the Sheriff of Orange County,,not the Sheriff of AOCDS. It is the citizens each candidate need to impress, not AOCDS members. Because the reality is we work for them, we serve them. "...my fundamental duty is to serve..." remember that quote, it is taken from the Law Enforcement Code of Ethics.

So if any tough questions need to be asked, it needs to be by the voters.

Apparently many AOCDS members have lost focus. So my suggestion will be, let's vote, carry out the will of the majority, with respect...and get back to serving the community.

First, I see where the letter was written by someone other than Sergeant. A bit confusing with names removed from letters following Sergeant's thoughts and all. My bad.
Second, you work for the citizens huh. A deputy sheriff is empowered to serve the people at the will of the sheriff. We have AOCDS to keep the relationship in check. The code of ethics is a general statement about law enforcement service conduct not a rank structure. If you don't believe it, tell your boss you don't work for him, you work for the people, and see what happens!

Third, Just because you are a member of AOCDS doesn't mean you aren't a voter.

Fourth, you are new to politics I see. You need the foudation(AOCDS member support) before you can build anything(voters)credible. It would be like George Bush(republican) running for president without the blessing of the Republican party. Some would argue possible, other would say impossible, why take the chance!

Fifth, Remember the Code of Ethics? Come on, I live by it. You should be asking Carona, Jaramillo, Bud Hood the Lt and Sgt kissing ass on the phone(Haidl's kids incident) those types of questions. I think the code of moral conduct is printed on the TOILET PAPER in a few offices in Headquarters.

Sixth, amen. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE, serve the will of the members, and CONTINUE the business of law enforcement. We don't need to get "back" to something which is ongoing.

Now, I addresssed every point in your response. No one has ever addressed mine. You did inform me Sergeant didn't write the letter. But Sergeant did take the name off the letter and post it, so sorry, casualty of war, friendly fire.

MC

I find all of this talk interesting. In 1998, myself and a very small group of OCSD folks 'bucked' the Association, and we backed Carona. Why? The Association seemed intent on backing another clone of Brad Gates, who (thank you anonymity) was one mean SOB, who was authoritarian, and governed through intimidation.

Of course, eight years later, I wish i'd never heard of that Jaramillo. But, he's gone now.

Looking at a choice between Carona and Hunt, I see us at the same crossroads, Carona is personable, affable and approachable. Hunt is in the same model as Gates. If he were ever to be elected, he would soon start to governor from the top-down again.

Jaramillo was dishonest and had the wrong temperment and lacked the maturity to be a good Sheriff. Hunt isn't a criminal like Jaramillo, but on temperment and maturity, he's right with Jaramillo.

We are lucky that Carona is willing to run again (for free). Our Association will do what it will -- but the road to Sheriff is littered with the candidates who have lost for Sheriff after an AOCDS endorsement.

Carona sees this as a county of 3,000,000 people. He will engage the debate there.

Oh yes, I hope Carona is happy. A lot of people told him, don't you promote Bill Hunt. He is disloyal to the core. Still, the Sheriff said "bygones are bygones" and tapped him anyways. I guess the last laugh is on Carona there.

MC

PS: All Deputy Sheriff's should look at the 3% @ 50 retirement package, and thank the Sheriff. The conservatives that dominate this website will excorciate him for lobbying the Board of Supervisors to give it to us. Hunt would just asoon have you forget his pivotal role in this...

You said;
Second, you work for the citizens huh. A deputy sheriff is empowered to serve the people at the will of the sheriff. We have AOCDS to keep the relationship in check. The code of ethics is a general statement about law enforcement service conduct not a rank structure. If you don't believe it, tell your boss you don't work for him, you work for the people, and see what happens!

I have told my bosses that, several Sgt's, a few Lt.'s and yes George Jaramillo, despite they readily agree with you to your face, the way you are treated (actions speak louder then words) is another story.

Some of the Sgt's and Lt's are still around, this is the need to stay annoymous. Some are very vocal supporters of Lt. Hunt.
All things considered, the only vocal persons are the Hunt supporters, so again the reason to stay annonymous is compounded as I am really not certain who supports Carona, or the others.

you also said;
Fourth, you are new to politics I see. You need the foudation(AOCDS member support) before you can build anything(voters)credible.

We have all been forced into politics, whether we like it or not. And to be truthful, I liked it when AOCDS established a committee and they did it for us. But now everytime I turn around, I am apporached by a peer and being TOLD TO MAKE A CHOICE. IF YOU DON"T THEN YOU ARE FOR THE OTHER GUY, [Carona].

Who said this, "I will restore the focus of the Sheriff's Department from politics to public safety where it belongs so you the resident will be better protected against crime."

You know who, however it is his supporters of his who are forceing his will on me. Yes I said me, I am thinking of myself and how I provide service. Nothing else, I am seriously considering, a write in Ballot for "Mickey Mouse" because each candidate has done nothing good for me, or nothing bad for that matter.

The Guys at AOCDS has obtained some good benefits for me, pay specifically and gotten me out of a few jams.
So I endore them.

"...a write in Ballot for "Mickey Mouse" because each candidate has done nothing good for me..."
Your correct the sheriff hasn't done much for you when you add it all up. Bill Hunt is not the sheriff yet, give him a chance.

You also said "I liked it when AOCDS established a committee and they did it for us" but you complain about your peers getting involved. Kind of condradictory don't you think.

Bill Hunt supporters are not forcing their will on you. We are supporting a candidate for sheriff. WE are getting involved and not allowing AOCDS to dictate. This is a sheriff race, our boss, not some state rep 400 miles from us. You said your more comfortable with AOCDS telling you who to support. WE are AOCDS, listen to us and you decide.

You endorese who, AOCDS. The same people who tell area representatives they can be replaced, or tell area representatives to tell the members to fuck off and vote no on contracts if they don't like it(Contract Rep Meeting this year).

AOCDS does a whole lot of good. But their delivery sucks most of the time and most of them have been there too long.

You sound like a member who believes in good representation. If this it true and your willing to let AOCDS speak for you, give Bill Hunt a chance to lead this organization.

Vote for early endorsement, Vote Bill Hunt for Sheriff in 2006!

I thought this was a discuss on early endorsement Pro and Con.

Will someone address Wayne and Bob's comments. Their early endorsement! Why is everyone dancing around the issue?

Those were WAY EARLY endorsements!

Phew...my brain is spinning, am I not suppose to let AOCDS decide, you said, "WE are getting involved and not allowing AOCDS to dictate."

Or am I suppose to let them decide, you also said, "WE are AOCDS, listen to us and you decide."

Realist

Wayne Quint and Bob McLeod's comments about Sheriff Carona were made at a time when Carona ran unopposed and was clearly going to be the Sheriff for another term. To make derogatory comments at a time like that would not serve the members of AOCDS. What was Wayne supposed to do? Fight with the Sheriff when there was no apparent battle to fight. His comments about the Sheriff were meant to show support and loyalty to our boss who supported 3@50 and several other things we were asking for. If you think the comments were inappropriate then you clearly don't understand the importance of building relationships with management for the benefit of labor.

As for calling those comments an early endorsement, c'mon. Nobody was running against Carona and AOCDS had no other candidates to discern from. Now that Bill Hunt is in the race and AOCDS has a decision to make, an open mind and sense of fair play dictate that anyone involved in the endorsement process should keep their personal bias out of the political arena.

To suggest that Wayne Quint and Bob McLeod's comments are tantamount to a PAC endorsement is just not accurate. On the other hand, a supposedely "fair and impartial" endorsement process involving people who provide financial, political and moral support to Bill Hunt prior to interviewing him is disengenuous at best and downright immoral at worst.

?Mark

To the spouter making all the references about his political savvy: Don't get too excited about the AOCDS endorsements. As much as we like to imagine how much the public looks up to us, remember two names from the past: Lauren Rusk and Paul Walters, both heavily backed by the deputies; does the word massacre ring any bells???

Mark,
Why do you have to start out calling names "spouter". This is a blog. C'mon. Massacre, what race were you following. We had six weeks.

Building relationships? I talk to my neighbor, regularly, that is a relationship. Sleeping with her is much more than a relationship, for labor or not too much is too much!

?Mark

OK, "massacre" might have been an overstatement. But,a loss is a loss is a loss (unless you use the Kerry "what if" counting method). My point was simply that the general public really doesn't give a rat's behind what cops think.

Realist

If Bill Hunt received the same comments that Sheriff Carona did, you would probably be okay with it. Your only problem with Wayne Quint is that he isn't gushing over your guy! But let's not get petty.

The issue was Quint's supposed endorsement for the upcoming election. I was only pointing out that it wasn't an endorsement. Just politically savvy support for a guy that could help AOCDS. That doesn't make it any easier to swallow, but it doesn't make it an endorsement either.

The only thing Wayne gushes over is himself or maybe Carona. I have to agree with the other guy Realist. Wayne is in Carona's pocket. Remember, if it walks like a duck, and smells like a duck, and looks like a duck it may just be Wayne Quint.

Look at the spin Wayne put on the ballot for early election. That was complete crap. Everyone agrees that was wrong. What happened to equal representation.

Hey,Im suprised Tom Dominguez didn't put his bio on the ballot, since he didn't get it out the other night at the meeting.

Realist

I'm no Wayne Quint fan and I agree he has characterized the AOCDS Ballots in his favor. But his positive comments about the Sheriff were made at a time when there was no election and nobody was running for sheriff. So his motives were in the best interest of the association.

I do think Wayne favors the Sheriff over Bill Hunt but he isn't out there writing letters in support of the Sheriff and he isn't donating money to his campaign. That can't be said for PAC members who actively support Hunt and have put money into Hunt's campaign and then plan to sit in on the endorsement process. That's just wrong.

I've heard people say that Quint is just looking for his lieutenant bars, but if you check the Lt. eligibility lists for the last couple of years, you'll find he hasn't even applied....you can't promote to Lt. if you don't apply. As for Tom Dominguez, he hasn't looked for promotion either....so you have to ask what their motiviation is. In my opinion they are looking out for the best interests of the association. By your estimation they are probably not doing a very good job of it, but at least their efforts aren't self serving.

You cant say that for some of Hunt's supporters who are members of the PAC. Their sole interest at this point is to serve at the will of Bill Hunt. They think they are bettering the department by doing so, but if that is the prism they are looking through, then AOCDS interests aren't necessarily being served.

Are you kidding me? If Wayne's name was on the Lietenants list he would have been promoted by now, and everyone would see his motivation.

Tom Dominguez's performance at the meeting was down right stupid. The only thing he wanted to speak of when asked valid questions was his biography, which nobody wanted to hear. His own peers had to tell him to shut up and sit down!

There is a grave misconception about AOCDS, Wayne Quint and Tom Dominguez. It is they are all about the membership, some members maybe, not the membership.

If we all don't see it in FOUR PAGES of one position on the dues increase sent with each ballot, the attempt to make it look fair in the early endorsement vote, the comments and rhetoric flying out of the AOCDS office and the fracturing of the Board, I'm not sure what it will take to open our eyes.

I believe now we have to pull together vote for early endorsment, pay attention and vote. If they cannot get the endorsment to go for Carona they will try to fracture us and minimize our impact. I think they have shown they are willing to burn the house down to sway us toward Carona.

Everyone must see through this attempt and allow democracy to prevail! Don't let the Board, the PAC or Bob make choices of this nature for you.

Angelo Lutz

Jeff Weaver, I ve been reading your "annonymous" posting and let me address some of your more noteworthy quotes.

You said "AOCDS does a whole lot of good. But their delivery sucks most of the time and most of them have been there too long."

The delivery, if they speak to you like you spoke at that meeting, and you post here, then I think you get what you deserve. Are you kidding me, "most" of them have been there to long, Who? those that are not for endorseing anyone right now...then that wouold be 5 of the six. I guess you would know who, since you, at the meeting the other night, advocated virtually eliminating the vote of the District attorney's Investigators. You are a true advocate of the people...you just haven't figured it out, your WWF style does not work will with seasoned street cops...most of us who have had the courage to move around the department and actually do police work, will not stand for being bullied by anyone...maybe it is you who have been one place too long, (the jail) live a little take a chance get out and see how rewarding police work really is. You will also see, no matter who is sheriff, it will not affect how you do your job, unless your focus in life is moving up the ladder, vs. serving.

"What about Bob McLeod, who has no bussiness speaking for AOCDS members"

Again this statement shows how naive you are, Bob MacLeod better be speaking on our behalf, that's what he has been hired to do!


"You sound like a member who believes in good representation. If this it true and your willing to let AOCDS speak for you, give Bill Hunt a chance to lead this organization".

Again you haven't figured out what is plain to most, this is not about 'Bill Hunt" this is about us, Bill Hunt will never run AOCDS...neither will any Sheriff for that matter. Bill Hunt had an opportunity to run AOCDS, however he choose to accept a promotion, given to him by Mike Carona, and leave are bargaining unit.


"code of ethics is a general statement"

You have to be kidding me, Code of Ethics is not a general statment, it is a life style, I committment each and everyone of us makes...however we have no control, over what others do inregards to this, we only truly control ourselves.

"Hey,Im suprised Tom Dominguez didn't put his bio on the ballot, since he didn't get it out the other night at the meeting."

That's not what I saw Tom doing, I know of Tom Dominguez, he is a twenty year street cop, and like any street cop knows, it is important to lay a foundation, also called vior dire, before arguing his cause, however it was your WWF antics that would not allow him to get his cause out. (Get out of the jail, no one is holding you back and you will see what I am talking about).

"Everyone agrees that was wrong..."

There you go again, just like the meeting the other night, claiming you speak for everyone. Will Jeff, I don't think you know me, however I know you now and let me tell "everyone" I talk to also now know who you are, and everyone I talk to resents the fact that you claim to speak for everyone. You have done nothing to help Lt. Hunts cause, and yours for that matter. Everyone I talk to have the same opinion of you, and your imature antics.

You have accused Wayne Quint of being a seeker of Lt's bars, I suppose you have some factual information to share with us to prove this.................I guess not...objection your Honor-lacking foundation. The only Board member to be promoted under this Adminstration is the advocate for Lt. Hunt. And this Board member was promoted by Mike Carona, and sent to patrol by that scum bag, Jorge.

Realist

Anonymous, Jeff Weaver or whatever your name is, You've got to be kidding!!

"IF" Quint was on the Lt.List he would have been promoted? IF? He isn't on the list, so your point is mute. He chose to serve our association, and not promote, so you can't possibly make that assertion.

As for Tom Dominguez, how can you say that his perfomance was stupid? He was attempting to make a point and your obnoxious cohorts shouted him down. None of his supporters told him to sit down. If anyone did, I'd like to hear who did. I was sitting within earshot of his fellow board members and only Hunt supporters shouted him down. So once again, you have proven yourself wrong.

As for Tom and Wayne being about "some" of the members....I don't think any ONE person can be for all of the members when it comes to politics. Certainly they are for all of the members when it comes to contract negotiations, but even then you can't satisfy everyone. An example...I am former military and I like the fact that we now get some recognition for promotion. On the other hand, I've heard from several members who think that's unfair....so tell me smart guy, who is for "all" members? I think what you really mean to say is that they don't agree with your particular position, so they aren't representing AOCDS as you see fit.

As for their "fracturing of the board"...give me a break! The only person opposed to what they are doing is Brian Heaney who happens to be a Bill Hunt supporter and clearly has his own agenda. If anyone has fractured from the board, it's Brian...That's his right and I respect his willingness to do what he feels is right, but nobody is "fracturing" anything. It's just a difference of opinion on a very touchy subject.

YOU believe we should "Pull together" and "Endorse Early"...YOU and your group tried to force the early endorsement on the ENTIRE membership with that underhanded attmept at the meeting the other night. I heard some of your supporters say "too bad, If the entire membership cared they would have been here tonight". All Wayne Quint did was put it to a vote of the ENTIRE membership who should have the final say in what we do....so once again smart guy, who is for the "all" of the membership??? Looks to me like it's Quint and a majority of the board who are letting the members decide. You and your crew seem upset by that and call it "fracturing", but I see it as a democratic decision and represntative of all members.

When the vote is counted and the MEMBERSHIP decides whether to endorse early or not, then we'll see we'll know where the membership is on the issue....until then, you can't possibly speak for the entire membership or claim that Quint is subverting anything other than your particular agenda.

?Mark

Well put, Realist. Over many years of watching the Association's interaction with the troops, there are always unhappy parties. Is Quint a politician- you bet he is! We didn't elect him to put "Q" the street cop in there to tick everybody off- he has to keep a lot of people happy! I'll bet Mr. Anonymous wasn't around during the early days of AOCDS- when Gates, Ramos, and LaDucer hated everything about the "union", and every thing we asked for was a fistfight. Does Quint have the opportunity to feather his own bed-sure, just like anyone else in a position of leadership and trust. Has he- I haven't seen any evidence of it. Why shoot ourselves in the foot when we have an administration that works with us, and the election is months away???? I truly have not made a firm decision myself yet, but let's follow our own procedures just like we have done for every prior election. Spend some time and energy defeating the real enemy, Joe Kerr and the Moneygrubbers.

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